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  • 16:40, 7 March 2023 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0014 (At the 2023 scientonomy workshop, it was determined that this modification presupposes the acceptance of 2018-0013, even though the statement of the modification in the original journal article and its initial description on the encyclopedia page failed to indicate this. Based on the comments on the modification left by Ameer Sarwar, Hakob Barseghyan, Tessa Ng, and Josh Allen, the participants unanimously agreed that the modification presupposed 2018-0013. This now meant that the modification...)
  • 16:38, 7 March 2023 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0013 (The modification was discussed during the 2023 workshop. It was noted that there is a forthcoming paper on local stances, which may help to address some of the community’s concerns and questions about this modification. Hakob Barseghyan suggested that the stance of scientificity is perhaps best understood as a local stance. Gregory Rupik wondered if there are any global stances, i.e. whether even acceptance can be said to be a global stance. To this, Hakob Barsgehyan responded that, unlike al...)
  • 15:28, 6 March 2023 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0004 (At the 2023 Scientonomy Workshop, the authors of the modification introduced some clarifications before it was discussed and voted upon. Namely, Hakob Barseghyan withdrew his comment about concerns about funding the book prize, and Jamie Shaw clarified that the line about a “CV-worthy line” was specifically catered towards incentivizing early-career scholars. The authors also indicated that continual commentating could allow for several prizes in various categories to reward more participants...)
  • 15:28, 6 March 2023 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs deleted comment #201 on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0004
  • 15:27, 6 March 2023 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0004 (At the 2023 Scientonomy Workshop, the authors of the modification introduced some clarifications before it was discussed and voted upon. Namely, Hakob Barseghyan withdrew his comment about concerns about funding the book prize, and Jamie Shaw clarified that the line about a “CV-worthy line” was specifically catered towards incentivizing early-career scholars. The authors also indicated that continual commentating could allow for several prizes in various categories to reward more participants...)
  • 16:19, 25 February 2023 Grace Shan talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0005 (I believe that the phenomenon of element decay is viable as a theoretical concept, and I think this paper has brought to light the pursuit-worthiness of the topic. However, I believe the actual historical existence of element decay needs to be substantiated by further observational studies following this inaugural one (which was excellently researched). The task of finding positive evidence in observational scientonomy—for example, indicators of theory acceptance or indicators of collective i...)
  • 16:37, 30 October 2022 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2022-0002 (I believe this is a very welcome addition to scientonomic body of knowledge. Rawleigh makes a strong case for the new law of method employment, which has clear advantages over the current third law. I agree with Rawleigh, that there doesn't seem to be any prima facie reasons to think that the mechanism of method employment should be somehow different from the mechanism of norm employment in general. Thus, until shown otherwise, I believe we should accept Rawleigh's formulation of the law of n...)
  • 20:53, 21 October 2022 Izzy Friesen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0010 (Having read “Reasons in the Scientonomic Ontology,“ I see no issues with the definitions proposed by Palider and I think they constitute an important addition which will prove useful in further scientonomic research. In fact, it is because they have already seen use in scientonomic scholarship that, in the absence of any dissent from the community, it seems key to accept these definitions. Namely, the specific formulations of “reason” and “sufficient reason” provide much of the basis for th...) Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit
  • 14:45, 18 October 2022 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0008 (I agree with both of the previous commentators: this doesn't seem to be the best solution, at least at this stage. In addition to the reasons mentioned by previous commentators, I think the implementation of this modification may result in yet another unwanted consequence: some researchers may end up submitting a negative comment simply for the sake of preventing the automatic acceptance of the modification and stopping the countdown. Verdict: Reject)
  • 20:24, 14 October 2022 Izzy Friesen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0001 (As Carlin points out, there is clear value in distinguishing logical and epistemic presuppositions in scientonomic diagrams, and it is also necessary to distinguish between them based on the proposed Law of Question Acceptance. For example, if we are diagramming a historical case studies that involve instances of actual documented question acceptance, we cannot necessarily excise certain logical presuppositions of a question but we must indicate their separation from the epistemic presupposit...) Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit
  • 20:09, 14 October 2022 Izzy Friesen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0008 (I am also uncomfortable with this modification. Firstly, I fail to see how it meaningfully addresses one issue referenced in the preamble: “Specifically, people may not want to accept the modification, but may not want to object to it explicitly for a variety of reasons. For instance, some people may not wish to be seen as impeding the modification's acceptance.” This concept that the lack of explicit objection not being the same as a total lack of objection/disagreement does not then squar...) Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit
  • 19:07, 29 September 2022 Izzy Friesen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0009 (Clarifying that my verdict is to not accept the modification in its current state.)
  • 22:03, 23 September 2022 Izzy Friesen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0009 (I would be more comfortable accepting this modification if the boundaries on “logic” as put forth in Palider (2019) are better reflected in this definition itself. In Palider (2019), “logical” is defined as simply something “rule-governed” (Palider, 20). However, it is then stated that this notion of logic is a purely alethic one (20). The concept of an agent’s “rules of implication,” which would need to be accepted by that agent appears several times later in the paper without a definition (...) Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit
  • 16:01, 14 December 2021 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0017 (I agree with Deivide that the modification is to be accepted. It introduces a necessary rewording in the definitions of ''authority delegation'' and its species. I find this modification uncontroversial, since, as such, it merely attempts to capture what is already ''de facto'' accepted - namely, the idea that authority can be delegated by and to epistemic agents of all kinds (both communal and individual). This is confirmed by the fact that the canonical examples of authority delegation ofte...)
  • 15:55, 14 December 2021 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0015 (This modification aims to codify our ''de facto'' communal stance towards the ontology of epistemic agents. Many recent articles published in the journal assume this ontology of epistemic agents. Barseghyan and Levesley (2021), for instance, use exclusively the term ''epistemic agent''. Similarly, in their paper on error handling, Machado-Marques and Patton (2021) consider examples not only of scientific communities but also of individual epistemic agents. This also goes for many earlier pape...)
  • 18:30, 12 December 2021 Deivide Garcia talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0017 (ON "Accept the definitions of authority delegation, and its subtypes, that generalize the currently accepted definitions to apply to all epistemic agents, rather than only communities." Yes. This proposal of delegation finds no logical objection. Moreover, although it could face so difficulty to be proven true from a historical perspective, especially in specific fields, like natural sciences, the proposed modification of delegation to all epistemic agents, rather only communities, finds no...)
  • 03:49, 22 October 2021 Joshua Allen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0005 (Element decay, as characterized by Oh, involves the departure of an element from an agent’s mosaic in the absence of a re-assessment or rejection by the agent. Oh presents five case studies, which intuitively seem, at first blush, to be contenders for historical episodes in which the phenomenon of element decay has transpired. Oh justifies the use of three necessary indicators of theory decay - agent continuity, change from theory acceptance to unacceptance, and theory unacceptance without as...)
  • 04:21, 15 October 2021 Joshua Allen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2017-0003 (Far from limiting the agreed upon ‘scope’ of science to a more modern conception of what the discipline entails by deeming it to have originated in earnest around the time of the Enlightenment - a view modern scientists are often guilty of holding - scientonomy takes a broad, universal view of science. As Fatigati mentions, Barseghyan (2015) has previously discussed the challenge this approach poses for the observational side of scientonomy. As we look to understand scientific mosaics from fu...)
  • 01:51, 15 October 2021 Carlin Henikoff talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0005 (I do NOT agree that the scientonomic community should accept that the phenomenon of element decay exists as a non-scientonomic phenomenon. It seems counterintuitive to expect a given community to be responsible for making existential claims regarding phenomena which lie beyond their community’s scope. From this it follows that it is not the scientonomic community’s place to determine whether element decay exists, as it is beyond the scope of scientonomy. Especially given the limited set of i...)
  • 03:55, 8 October 2021 Joshua Allen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0003 (It is clear that errors arise in science. They can put even prestigious journals like Nature in the position of needing to publish retractions, as the authors demonstrate with the ‘Pulsar Planet’ case, and can elude the broader scientific community for years, as seen with the ‘Piltdown Man’ case. Nonetheless, scientonomy currently lacks an accepted definition for ‘error’. The need to create one is made all the more clear and pressing when one attempts to address Mirkin and Karamehmetoglu’s op...)
  • 03:48, 8 October 2021 Joshua Allen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0004 (Machado-Marques and Patton convincingly argue that a scientonomic explanation of scientific error and its handling need not run afoul of the theory rejection theorem, the possibility of which was concernedly put forth in an open question by Mirkin and Karamehmetoglu in 2018. The authors, to much success, apply their definition of error to work through four historical episodes and show how each of the rejected propositions is often replaced by another first-order proposition, usually a direct...)
  • 03:14, 8 October 2021 Tessa Ng talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0012 (The suggested modification proposes that a community can accept classical theories, such as the phenomenological claims of classical physics, as the best available descriptions of the phenomena they describe while acknowledging that the theories themselves may be outdated. Alliksaar engages the case study of the meteorological community, which relies on classical mechanics and classical thermodynamics as fundamental pillars of their theories about atmospheric phenomena. At the crux of this mo...)
  • 23:23, 7 October 2021 Carlin Henikoff talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0004 (I agree that the historical cases of scientific error identified and treated by Machado-Marques and Patton effectively demonstrate the compatibility of instances of scientific error with the theory rejection theorem. These examples support the compatibility of these elements, not just within the theoretical scientonomy framework, but also within the actual practice of science.)
  • 23:17, 7 October 2021 Carlin Henikoff talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0004 (I agree that the handling of scientific error, as defined by Machado-Marques and Patton, is compatible with the theory rejection theorem. The theory rejection theorem states that a theory becomes rejected when another incompatible theory is accepted. A theory can be replaced by a first-order incompatible theory. A theory can also be replaced by a second-order proposition accounting for the lack of evidence for the previously accepted first-order proposition. Scientific error, as defined b...)
  • 20:08, 7 October 2021 Paul Patton talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0018 (The zeroth law of scientific change; the law of compatibility, is flawed in several respects, which Fraser and Sarwar have identified. Unlike other scientonomic laws, the old law of compatibility (or zeroth law) is stated from a static perspective, invoking a hypothetical moment in time. There are many reasons why this is problematic. One is that it does not allow for the possibility that, human cognitive abilities being limited, unrecognized incompatibilities might lurk, undetected, within t...)
  • 20:07, 7 October 2021 Paul Patton talk contribs deleted comment #180 on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0018
  • 15:48, 7 October 2021 Paul Patton talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0018 (The zeroth law of scientific change; the law of compatibility, is flawed in several respects, which Fraser and Sarwar identify. Unlike other scientonomic laws, the old law of compatibility (or zeroth law) is stated from a static perspective, invoking a hypothetical moment in time. There are many reasons why this is problematic. One is that it does not allow for the possibility that, human cognitive abilities being limited, unrecognized incompatibilities might lurk, undetected, within the...)
  • 15:46, 7 October 2021 Paul Patton talk contribs deleted comment #179 on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0018
  • 15:46, 7 October 2021 Paul Patton talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0018 (The zeroth law of scientific change; the law of compatibility, is flawed in several respects, which Fraser and Sarwar identify. Unlike other scientonomic laws, the old law of compatibility (or zeroth law) is stated from a static perspective, invoking a hypothetical moment in time. There are many reasons why this is problematic. One is that it does not allow for the possibility that, human cognitive abilities being limited, unrecognized incompatibilities might lurk, undetected, within the...)
  • 05:53, 5 October 2021 Kye Palider talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0018 (I believe this modification should be accepted. It acknowledges that there are compatibility assessments done by epistemic agents, and knowledge of compatibility is not assumed for the agent, but is something arrived at by the agent. It also allows for compatibility assessments to change over time in the face of new information, e.g. figuring out there is a contradiction between two theories potentially long after they have been proposed. Overall, this new law of compatibility is a substantia...)
  • 03:46, 1 October 2021 Tessa Ng talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2017-0006 (The proposed modification seeks to answer the question of what may be inferred about a theory’s assessment outcome based on whether the theory was accepted, unaccepted, or the cause of a mosaic split. In light of the acceptance of modification 2017-0004 (reformulation of the second law), this suggested modification may be interpreted as a reasonable extension/ application of its predecessor. The suggested modification proposes an interesting and fruitful guide for investigating theory asses...)
  • 03:45, 1 October 2021 Tessa Ng talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0016 (The suggested modification proposes that compatibility is an epistemic stance agents can take towards elements in and outside of mosaics. A key qualifier of the suggested compatibility stance is that it is distinct. In addition to the existing epistemic stances of acceptance, use, pursuit, and employment, compatibility can be used to describe a particular unexplored relation between epistemic elements that the other stances cannot. Moreover, compatibility is a stance that may be taken in add...)
  • 00:46, 1 October 2021 Carlin Henikoff talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0003 (Though I agree with you that error should always be relative to an epistemic agent and their employed methods -- and that the proposed notion of error is distinct from absolute error -- I do wonder whether further distinction, accounting for instances of honest error and misconduct, would further improve our understanding of these shifts in theory acceptance.)
  • 00:32, 1 October 2021 Carlin Henikoff talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0003 (I agree that we should accept the definition of error, stating that an epistemic agent is said to commit an error if the agent accepts a theory that should not have been accepted given that agent’s employed method. One of the main goals of observational scientonomy is to develop a Tree of Knowledge providing comprehensive documentation of individual mosaics and their changes through time. In order to do this effectively, we must be able to differentiate between those theories which were accep...)
  • 17:21, 24 September 2021 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs deleted comment #172 on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0012
  • 05:43, 24 September 2021 Joshua Allen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0012 (In his paper, Alliksaar argues for the acceptance of a distinction between theories’ ontological and phenomenological claims, which could be used to more precisely determine whether or not a theory is (or has been) accepted. I do indeed think this distinction has the potential to serve observational scientonomy. However, I remain skeptical of the interpretation put forth on meteorology’s acceptance of classical theories, even if that acceptance is taken to be purely phenomenological. Alliksa...)
  • 05:40, 24 September 2021 Joshua Allen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2019-0012 (In his paper, Alliksaar argues for the acceptance of a distinction between theories’ ontological and phenomenological claims, which could be used to more precisely determine whether or not a theory is (or has been) accepted. I do indeed think this distinction has the potential to serve observational scientonomy. However, I remain skeptical of the interpretation put forth on meteorology’s acceptance of classical theories, even if that acceptance is taken to be purely phenomenological. Alliksaa...)
  • 00:39, 24 September 2021 Carlin Henikoff talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0002 (I agree that we should accept the law of question acceptance. For in order to practically accept, pursue, or employ theories answering questions, we must be able to demarcate those questions which are acceptable. For purposes of mapping belief systems, not only do we need to be able to accept questions without incurring combinatorially explosive/restrictive issues of presupposition, but we need a law of question acceptance which pragmatically restricts the set of all possibly acceptable quest...)
  • 23:40, 23 September 2021 Joshua Allen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0013 (The suggested modification looks to lay the foundation for a scientonomic law to explain how demarcation criteria function within a mosaic. This is an important area to develop as current scientonomic understanding of the matter is indeed lacking. However, I think the currently accepted framework for stances in scientonomy would make the acceptance of scientificity as an epistemic stance premature at this juncture. The three stances accepted in scientonomy - acceptance, use, and pursuit - are...)
  • 23:34, 23 September 2021 Joshua Allen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0014 (Sarwar and Fraser seem to be here attempting to bring the accepted epistemic stances further into alignment with the accepted components of employed methods - demarcation criteria, in particular - by formulating a scientonomic law to explain how demarcation criteria function within a mosaic. I agree that this is a worthwhile exercise. They argue that such a task requires a new epistemic stance, which they call 'scientificity'. Since, however, the discussion over whether or not to accept scien...)
  • 21:21, 23 September 2021 Tessa Ng talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0013 (The suggested modification proposes that scientificity is an epistemic stance agents can take towards theories. Inherent in the suggestion is that the stance can be taken at any time and in any context towards a theory. Moreover, the modification raises several prudent questions to be accepted, namely what scientificity is and whether it is a stance that can be taken towards methods and questions, as well as theories. At first glance, the modification appears simple and useful for evaluatin...)
  • 03:19, 23 September 2021 Tessa Ng talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0014 (The suggested modification, while interesting and potentially useful, seems to me too implausible to successfully implement due to the equivocality of the term “scientificity” throughout the history of science. It goes without saying that what qualifies as “scientific” has seldom been easily construed from culture to culture and era to era, hence the need for demarcation. However, although demarcation plays an integral role in scientonomy by distinguishing activities relevant to our practice,...)
  • 02:59, 23 September 2021 Tessa Ng talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2017-0015 (The suggested modification proposes a further qualification of the relationship between epistemic and non-epistemic communities. Assuming the distinction between epistemic and non-epistemic communities is accepted and the existence of sub-communities is also accepted, the modification puts forward that epistemic communities can constitute a non-epistemic community, or at least be a sub-group within the larger non-epistemic group. In light of the pertinent example of Google, it seems immedia...)
  • 18:19, 22 September 2021 Tessa Ng talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0005 (The suggested modification engages a meaningful concept in scientonomy, which is that of element decay. According to the First Law of scientific change, also known as the Law of Scientific Inertia, elements in a mosaic ought to remain present in a mosaic unless they are superseded by alternative elements. It goes without saying that as science has progressed, various elements have fallen out of mosaics without replacement due to a host of factors. This phenomenon, which is a direct violation...)
  • 15:36, 22 September 2021 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs deleted comment #161 on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0014
  • 15:36, 22 September 2021 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs deleted comment #162 on Modification talk:Sciento-2021-0005
  • 15:36, 22 September 2021 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs deleted comment #164 on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0013
  • 11:52, 22 September 2021 Hakob Barseghyan talk contribs deleted comment #163 on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0014 Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit
  • 18:59, 19 September 2021 Tessa Ng talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0013 (The suggested modification, while interesting and potentially useful, seems to me too implausible to successfully implement due to the equivocality of the term “scientificity” throughout the history of science. It goes without saying that what qualifies as “scientific” has seldom been easily construed from culture to culture and era to era, hence the need for demarcation. However, although demarcation plays an integral role in scientonomy by distinguishing activities relevant to our practice,...)
  • 15:56, 18 September 2021 Joshua Allen talk contribs posted a new comment on Modification talk:Sciento-2018-0014 (Sarwar and Fraser seem to be here attempting to bring the accepted epistemic stances further into alignment with the accepted components of employed methods - demarcation criteria, in particular - by formulating a scientonomic law to explain how demarcation criteria function within a mosaic. I agree that this is a worthwhile exercise. They argue that such a task requires a new epistemic stance, which they call 'scientificity'. However, I think the currently accepted framework for stances in s...)
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